EP 31 | SURVIVING SUICIDAL IDEATION & DEPRESSION: MIKHAYLA HUGHES-SHAW
Episode Summary
Many times, some of us have to grow up a bit green.
Mikhayla had to when she entered high school and all of her adversities came upon her at the same time. Her biological father went to jail, her mother got major back surgery and a divorce from her second husband, and she started having suicidal thoughts at the same time, it was a cocktail. She shares what her support system is, how she copes with suicidal thoughts and depression, and her experience as Miss Iowa. She has been an inspiration for younger generations to take the first step in seeking help.
Mikhayla has two pieces of advice for all of you, listen up to discover them!
About the Guest - Mikhayla Hughes-Shaw
Mikhayla Hughes-Shaw is an experienced leader with a true heart for service. Her skill set includes public speaking, journalism, communications, event planning, mental health advocacy, and organization management. By combining her life experiences and vulnerably sharing her story, Mikhayla has been a voice for those who feel like they don’t have a voice.
Serving as Miss Iowa 2018 in the Miss America Organization allowed her to reach thousands of people in a unique way, people like to listen to someone with a crown on their head, right? With this title, she championed a platform for her year of service called How About HOPE – Mental Health and Suicide Awareness. Mikhayla spoke to over 10,000 students in schools throughout Iowa and Illinois and completed over 150 community and school appearances. She made it her mission to partner with nonprofit organizations that provided mental health services for their communities and did so in multiple counties throughout Iowa. Mikhayla also represented the Miss Iowa Scholarship Program at the Miss America competition in September of 2018, and earned over $15,000 in scholarship dollars to pursue a higher education program.
She now has the honor of hosting Loving Living Local, a lifestyle show that airs on WHBF-TV on weekdays at noon. Mikhayla loves connecting with new people and sharing stories, so this is a dream come true. Feel free to reach out to Mikhayla at: mikhayla.hughes@gmail.com
Key Take-Aways
Even though a divorce is never a child’s fault, it takes a great toll on them.
Many times, those who have their life “together” are the ones that are struggling the most.
The seasonal affective disorder is real and it comes and goes depending on the individual.
Sometimes you just need to take a step back, recharge, and continue to work on yourself.
No mistake will ever define you.
Resources
EP 31_Mikhayla Hughes: Audio automatically transcribed by Sonix
EP 31_Mikhayla Hughes: this mp3 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.
Kevin Hines:
My name is Kevin Hines. I jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge. I believe that I had to die, but I lived. Today, I travel the world with my lovely wife, Margaret, sharing stories of people who have triumphed over incredible adversity. Now, we help people be here tomorrow. Welcome to the HINESIGHTS podcast.
Kevin Hines:
What is cracking, Hope Nation? It is once again your friendly neighbor, Kevin Hines, and I'm really excited today for my podcast guests. My podcast guest today is Mikhayla Hughes-Shaw. She's a public speaker, an amazing journalist, a communications genius, not to mention she's a dedicated powerhouse, mental health advocate, and a champion of change, Mikhayla even plays violin. After living with severe depression as a teenager and having suicidal thoughts, Mikhayla created How About HOPE, for mental health and suicide prevention. Mikhayla joins us today on the HINESIGHTS podcast to share her vision of what suicide prevention is and should be, to share moving and personal story of hope. Thank you, Mikhayla, for joining us, welcome to the show, I'm so grateful to have you here with us.
Mikhayla Hughes-Shaw:
Oh, I'm so excited to be here. Thank you for having me! It's, this is been a, now long time coming.
Kevin Hines:
It's been a long time coming and we try to do some things in the past, didn't quite work out, and now here we are today, it's finally happening, let's get right into it. I have a bunch of questions for you. Mikhayla, would you be able to share with our audience what it was like growing up for you and what were your first experiences with adversity?
Mikhayla Hughes-Shaw:
Hmm. Such a good question. I would have to say that the earlier part of my life, my very early childhood was mainly positive, outside of the fact that it was just me and my mom. We obviously struggled just being a mother-daughter duo, her as a single mom she had to work really hard just to make sure that we had what we needed, but I never felt that when I was super young. But high school was definitely a turning point for me when it came to adversity for numerous reasons, one being that my dad actually went to prison when I was 15, so just kind of getting started in high school, trying to find yourself, and then that, that big piece of you is no longer there. My stepdad and my mom actually got a divorce around that same time, too, and so all of the male role models in my life just weren't there anymore. Obviously, they were still around, but just not in the way that they had been, and so that was really tough. My mom also went through a major back surgery, and it forced me to grow up very quickly. At age 16, I was taking care of my brother, buying groceries, taking on a lot of adult responsibilities, got my first job, and so it was definitely a tough time. And that was probably when most of the adversity in my life kind of all came together at the same time.
Kevin Hines:
Ok. How did you feel when you're your mom and your stepdad got divorced? What did that do to you? How did it affect you?
Mikhayla Hughes-Shaw:
It was incredibly hard. It put me in such a bad headspace and I just said this, but it forced me to grow up very quickly. I did not get to enjoy a lot of the things that my peers were doing. I was more focused on making sure that my mom was good. I actually, something that I learned later on and I greater understood further down the line was my hair was thinning because I was so stressed as a kid and my hair was falling out and I learned later that that is a response, it's kind of like it's just a response to a lot of trauma and bad things happening at the same time. So I internalized a lot of it. And obviously, a divorce is never a child's fault. But some part of you may always worry that you had something to do with it, even if you didn't. So long story short, it was just it was a very difficult time, it was a really dark time, it was.
Kevin Hines:
I totally see it, when my parents got divorced, I had a catastrophic, the doctor said I had a catastrophic response to the divorce. It shook me to the core. I didn't see it coming, I didn't have any foreknowledge that it was happening, my sister saw it coming, she was aware that it was coming down the pipeline, not me. I was totally taken off guard and it was devastating and it stuck with me for a really long time and it was right at the same time that I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder and, you know, two years prior to attempting to take my life. Mikhayla, what would you say to your younger self today if you could go back, what would you say to speak to her?
Mikhayla Hughes-Shaw:
Not to be a cliché, but it's going to be OK, even if it doesn't feel like it's going to be in that moment and during those times in my life, to age 16-17, when all of that was happening, that was when I first had suicidal thoughts too, and I think it was a culmination of divorce, dad being in prison, dealing with stupid bullies at school, being a teenager, there's just so many things that already happen at that age, but then for all of those other things to happen on top of that, that was obviously tough, and that was, that was when I first had thoughts of being overwhelmed and feeling like maybe the world would be better off without me. And it was probably just the culmination of, you know, all of those feelings, and so I would tell myself, it's going to be OK, it's OK to ask for help and to not hide it from everyone because I say all of these things, but on paper, I was a straight-A student, I was president of all of these clubs, I was running track and doing really well in that, I was playing violin and doing all of these things, so on the outside, I looked like my entire life was fully together, I was good, but inside and at home, that was not the case. And so just being OK with letting people in on what's going on, that is something that I would, I would also tell myself too.
Kevin Hines:
We hear this all the time of the individual that on the outside appears fine, appears OK, it seems like they've got it all together and then they're crushed on the inside, they're hurting mentally on the inside, or they're going through brain pain, whatever terminology you want to use. When did the first suicidal ideation happen?
Mikhayla Hughes-Shaw:
17.
Kevin Hines:
17.
Mikhayla Hughes-Shaw:
Definitely 17. And I distinctly remember just that moment and how absolutely terrifying it was. I remember the entire vision, I had a vision that was, that was kind of how it came to me, that first time was I actually saw myself hurting myself and ending my life. And it was, it was terrifying. It was one of the scariest moments I've ever had in my life, and I think anybody that's been there can also attest to the same thing. It's, it's scary when you recognize that you could have the power to take your own life because life is, it's a gift, it's, it's a beautiful thing that we have, but it's not uncommon, I mean, that's why you and I are connected even here, it's not uncommon that there are times where we recognize that we could take our own lives.
Kevin Hines:
We have that potential as human beings. There are even some animals that take their own lives. For example, some dolphins take their lives when they lose their babies. It's within the animal realm, if you, if you will. How often after that first time did you ever think about suicide or was it a one-time thing?
Mikhayla Hughes-Shaw:
It wasn't a one-time thing, definitely quite a few times throughout 17 to 18. It was a really strong year, and it was also paired with depression and life changes and so many other things. But luckily, I will say it's not something that I deal with on a regular basis now, so I'm very grateful for that. But gosh, that time where that was just something that consumed my mind more times than I wish it had. I mean, we never want it to, even cross our mind, but there was a solid year of a really, really, really hard time. But I was lucky because I said, hey, mom, this is how I'm feeling, this is what came to my mind, this is scary. And she's like, yeah, it is. And so I was fortunate enough to have a support system, and when I did open up about it, I was able to just seek that help and get the help that I needed. But I know not everybody's fortunate enough to do that, and I know that there are people that deal with chronic thoughts on a very regular basis, too.
Kevin Hines:
I'm one of those people, but I have the tools and the managerial skills, if you will, to say I need help now and get help I need every time. No matter when or where the thoughts come, I'm always going to ask for help, but that's something I had to learn over time and teach myself to be resilient from the thoughts and not allow them to overtake me, which was a very difficult thing to do. But definitely possible. How often do you live with depression today, or is that something you live with? Or have you come to a place where you feel on an even keel? What is your, what is your idea on depression today?
Mikhayla Hughes-Shaw:
So I definitely still deal with it. It comes in bouts, and I think anybody that deals with depression could say the same thing. There are times where you're on top of the world and you're good to go. I'm very much somebody who tries to just overwork myself and work through it and stay super positive all the time, and I've learned that it's really important to kind of sit with those feelings when those feelings do come and to talk about those feelings and to talk with the therapist about those feelings, too. Therapy is something that has helped me tremendously when I go through those moments. It's always harder when the seasons change and it gets darker, I miss the sunlight. We hear about seasonal affective disorder all the time, but definitely hits me, hits me harder when there's, when there's less sun, but also depression, just likes to strike whenever it's feeling like it's a good day to come around.
Kevin Hines:
For sure, I can totally feel that. Can you talk more about seasonal affective disorder and people that are affected by that and what that means for those maybe listening that aren't familiar with it?
Mikhayla Hughes-Shaw:
Yeah. And I think we always hear the term seasonal depression, that someone gets thrown around on the news and in articles all the time. And seasonal affective disorder is really saying it's in a way seasonal depression. So it can be from the lack of light, it can be from the lack of activity that we have during this time too, when we are in warmth and it's summer, we're all out and about, we're doing activities. But when it gets colder and darker, you spend a whole lot more time at home, you might spend more time alone. And so there are quite a few different factors that can lead to dealing with seasonal affective disorder. But there are so many ways that you can overcome it too, whether that be using things like, have you heard of those light boxes?
Kevin Hines:
I have one.
Mikhayla Hughes-Shaw:
Oh gosh, that's so cool!
Kevin Hines:
Because they work for bipolar disorder as well as depression as well.
Mikhayla Hughes-Shaw:
And it makes such a huge difference. We actually had a we had a therapist come on the show that I host and he, he brought one out and I said, oh, this feels like some like it was a beautiful thing. Moving your body, is such a good thing to do during that time too, if you're feeling that way and just talking about it, that's a really big thing. Don't feel like you're a failure because you feel this way, don't feel like you're the only person feeling this way, you're truly not alone, so many people deal with seasonal affective disorder during this time. I mean, it's the prime time we're getting into the darker and colder seasons. So just know it's OK if you're if you're not feeling OK.
Kevin Hines:
I totally agree with you. So here's an important, what do you do right now and what, what do you do daily for your mental wellbeing? What are you? What are your tips and tricks for staying tip-top to the best of your ability?
Mikhayla Hughes-Shaw:
Hmm. Every day is a little different. You might need something different every day. It just depends on how things are going. I am a faithful person, and so I really love reading daily devotionals, praying, taking some moments out of the day to just have a moment, talk to Jesus, but whoever you need to talk to, you talk to, whoever that is for you. So that's, that helps me so much, it keeps me centered throughout the day, too. When I drink more water, I feel better. And so I try to drink enough water, try to get a good night's sleep because I feel terrible when I don't and I feel like my mind is all over the place. I'm always thinking about something, and so when I get a good night's rest, it helps me so much throughout the entirety of the day. If I get overwhelmed, I'll take a moment and just go for a walk around the block, or I will turn off my phone for ten minutes and not focus on all of the emails and the messages. So it just depends on the day. But I definitely have some go-to tactics where, OK, I'm getting overwhelmed or I'm not feeling this right now, I need to take a breather, and so I'll do some of those things that I just listed.
Kevin Hines:
Fantastic! I love those tips and tricks. Those are perfect and great for the audience to hear and can really help people be, benefit their brain health, which is really important, and the physical health. You were, in 2018, you're crowned Miss Iowa.
Mikhayla Hughes-Shaw:
Yes.
Kevin Hines:
Tell us about that. I don't know what it's like to be crowned Miss Iowa, so tell me what that's like and what that meant to you and how you get into all that.
Mikhayla Hughes-Shaw:
Well, I think you could be a Miss Iowa, if you want to Kevin! You can be whoever you want to be. So I have a weird pageant career. I always say it was a short but effective. So I was not one of those kids that grew up doing pageants. In fact, I didn't do my first pageant until I was 18 years old, and when somebody approached me about it, I was like, no, I'm good. Like, I don't think I want to do that. At the time, I had volunteered with a women's empowerment organization for like a solid three to four years, right? And so in my mind, I'm like, do pageants even empower women? What are we? Why? Why would I sign up for this? I have to walk on stage in a swimsuit like, what do you guys have me doing? But with the Miss America organization, I quickly learned the scholarship opportunities, the opportunities to showcase my talent, and I took advantage of it and I said, OK, I'll give it a shot, we'll see how it goes. So did my first competition. I was like, wow, that was really great. And I did not do another pageant for two years, just kind of took a breather, but I ended up coming back and competing in 2017, and then I won a title that helped me go to the Miss Iowa competition. And when I won Miss Iowa, I won give or take like $12000 dollars in scholarship dollars and yeah, as a first gen college student and I mean, I already listed everything that was going on in my life at that time. My mom had actually lost her job when she had her back surgery. And so we look at it as a blessing in a very weird way because now she's employed, she's doing much better, life is so much better. We, we are all in such a good place now, but her losing her job helped me qualify for quite a bit of financial aid, but there were still things to cover. And so because of me winning Miss Iowa, I was able to graduate debt free. So that's just like my biggest thing is, yeah, I was Miss Iowa, but I also got to finish out my education, be the first person in my family to graduate college because of this, this wonderful organization. So I'm always just very grateful for that and the opportunities that came with being Miss Iowa. But the act of being crowned Miss Iowa, though, that was the question, that was terrifying, it was crazy. It's so funny because you have directors and volunteers that help the organization throughout the duration of the year, and you have these people that you kind of report to and they help you get ready for Miss America, all of these things, and they said that when I won, they were worried about me because I look like a deer in headlights. Premature, if I knew what I just did, but I mean, I quickly realized what I was doing, and I took this message that we've been talking about, and I culminated it into something that was friendly for kids, friendly for adults. I did over one hundred and fifty community appearances throughout the state of Iowa and Illinois, too, and got a chance to talk with over 10,000 kids about brain health and just recognizing the signs of somebody not doing well and what you should do, how you should help them, what you should say. Talk to older folks alike on a deeper level, of course, and just had some really real conversations with people. It was incredible meeting people from all across the state that had experienced some of the same things that I had too, some people that were in their 80s talking about how much their mental health care shifted over the years. One experience that really stands out for me was actually going to one of the only mental health institutions that we still have open in Iowa, and, because there's really only two state institutions and seeing the history and learning about some of the things that used to be done to people who were dealing with mental health conditions and struggles, and that was eye-opening. So there were a lot of moments along the way that I look back on and that I'm really grateful for, and there are things that you wouldn't have thought would be paired with a crown and being Miss Iowa.
Kevin Hines:
Wow, can you go back for a moment and talk about, you mentioned something very important, I think that we don't want to skip over, you mentioned that the things that used to be done and the key word is done.
Mikhayla Hughes-Shaw:
Done.
Kevin Hines:
People that were institutionalized because it's the lights of torture and sometimes worse. Can you talk about what you know about some of the things that occurred to people who were mentally, labeled mentally ill or deranged as they used to call it? And these are some of the things that are still done in countries all around the world. Can you talk about that a little bit?
Mikhayla Hughes-Shaw:
Yeah. Well, even another aspect of this, too, is the things that people could get admitted for were outrageous. You could admit your wife because she was having a bad day and you could classify her as being clinically insane. I just, I, some of the admissions because they even had logs of some of the folks that had been admitted to the institution. Obviously, this is back in probably early nineteen hundreds kind of timeline there. So even just the fact that people could get sent there against their will was already just troubling. And I remember distinctly a lot of the experimental things, and I can't remember any of the names of the procedures. But some of the tools that we saw, they were so bad that I, I just, I can't even wrap my head around them still, to this day, just knowing that they would take a, wasn't it taking a portion out of somebody's brain?
Kevin Hines:
Yeah, it's the cerebellum and detach it from your body, rendering you motionless catatonic for the rest of your life. And they were allowed to do that to human beings that had hearts and minds and souls, and it's devastating. There were some institutions that did horrific things to people that we should name, you know, that were just, and I was part of the norm, that was part of the deal. You know, I'm a person who, in California, in my first psych ward stay, I was put in a white walled padded room in a straightjacket, which was already illegal at the time. Straitjackets are restricted, they're not going to make you in any way, shape or form calm down. They're just going to make you amp up and get upset because you can't move and you feel completely at the will of your beholders. One of the worst feelings I ever had in my life is being restricted in a straitjacket.
Mikhayla Hughes-Shaw:
The fact that, I mean, my hope is that protocols have shifted. But like you said, there are still things happening in other countries even to this day. And there are still so many misconceptions and stereotypes about people that even just deal with the, a serious mental health crisis. And my hope is that we can continue to see change.
Kevin Hines:
We've got to see change, we've got to be a part of that change because there's places in Africa where they burn you alive, on your butt, on certain parts of your body to expel the mental illness, which is not what they call it, there's places in the Philippines where they hang you in trees, in cages and you have people in shackles from their neck to their hands and their legs and their hair just growing so long, and they're just sitting in their own filth, it's absolutely terrifying. People complain about America, but we live in a place where for the most part, that's not happening in our psychiatric institutions that still exists. For the most part, it's humane in time, they're trying to get people to a better place mentally. I've been in nine psych ward stays in my life for suicidal ideation, and although there were some, some people in those psych wards, people that work there, there was two factions of people that worked in the psych wards I was in. There were the ones that were dead into their jobs, were tired of their work and they were just collecting a paycheck, but that goes in any profession on the face of the planet.
Mikhayla Hughes-Shaw:
Yeah, anywhere.
Kevin Hines:
Yeah, anywhere in the world. But then there were the wonderful people in those psych wards that cared about their jobs and cared about their patients or their consumers. I hate to call it patients and consumers, I like to call us citizens of hope, trying to get better, trying to find the light at the end of the tunnel, trying to be well. And so I'm really glad to see that, that, that we are shifting the newer hospitals or recreation centers or places for the mentally ill that are popping up now really have their act together, and they're doing great work to make citizens of hope feel great while in those places, which is really good. Ok, back to you. So you were Miss Iowa, and let's talk about your communications career. You are on TV, tell us about that journey and what you're doing right now, I want to hear about it.
Mikhayla Hughes-Shaw:
Well, it's crazy, and it's still something that doesn't feel real. It's funny because you get to a point where your job just feels like your job and then you kind of recognize later, oh, wait, that's not a normal job. I mean, same for you, too. I'm sure that you do such a wide variety of speaking engagements, and it just feels like, OK, this is what we do, we make this happen, we do that. And then you recognize later the greater impact that it actually has. And so, yeah, I work in TV and I started off as a reporter about, I start off as a reporter in August of 2020, I kind of always knew that I wanted to do something with talking, I just wasn't necessarily sure what it would be, and I was fortunate enough to land the talk show host job at our station. So I actually host what's called Loving Living Local. It's our local television lifestyle show. So the cooking, the small businesses, the non-profit organizations, all of those things we could highlight. And it's such a good time and I'm really grateful for it. And it doesn't feel like work sometimes, which is which is cool, I mean, we try to have as much fun as possible, we try to bring positivity and light to people's day, we come on at noon so either people are on a lunch break or maybe they're retired and they're watching us, I know we have a, we have an older demographic that, that tunes in every day, so that's always a good time. It's just a joy, it really is. And it's hard too, I mean, getting up every day. And if you make a mistake, it's very public too. It's not just like, oh, I messed up, I had a typo here. It's like, no, I said something completely wrong. And that just went out to thousands of people. But it's fine, everything's fine.
Kevin Hines:
So my next question for you is how and why did you start How About HOPE? And how is that organization for?
Mikhayla Hughes-Shaw:
It was born out of me, finally having the courage to open up publicly about what I had experienced when I was in those really dark times that we talked about between age 17 and 18, just definitely one of the darkest moments in my life, even still, to this day at age 24, definitely still some of the darkest times that I've ever had. And when I finally opened up about it and I recognized that I truly wasn't alone in that there were so many people, even in my circle and around me and at my school that felt the same way, I just recognized how important it was to actually talk about it. And it's like, why don't we talk about this in a more open way? Why do we all feel like we have to keep this to ourselves? Why are we embarrassed about the fact that we all struggle sometimes? And so How About HOPE is it's supposed to be posed as a question like why not have hope and HOPE is an acronym, so it stands for helping others and providing encouragement, and that's mainly through just open conversations and storytelling. So I started it in 2015, just with a dream to make a difference and start a conversation just in my community, and I never would have dreamed of being Miss Iowa because that gave me just a much bigger platform, and it gave me a chance to really touch even more people and to connect with nonprofits from across our state and across the country that we're doing this work, and so it has just continued to grow in ways that I am so incredibly grateful for. It's hard to put into words just.
Kevin Hines:
You put it into words perfectly. That makes perfect sense. It's fantastic to hear the work you do at How About HOPE. It's a beautiful thing you've created.
Mikhayla Hughes-Shaw:
And now really, it just serves as a safe space for people. And the pandemic was a really tough time even for us, and I know that, I almost felt guilty because we took a pretty long break. It's a small team of us, yeah, there's just a few of us that really make everything come together, and we were sitting with the idea of what do we do? How do we help people during this time when everybody is going through so much? And we were personally just going through so much too, so how do we still make a difference even from our computer screens and as we were all at home or not out doing the things that we would do before where we would have group events, we would bring people together, we would get people in the room together to have conversations, it was a matter of shifting that to how do we do that in a different format? And it was tough. It was definitely tough. And I think most organizations, whether you're a mental health organization or not, can say the same thing. We had to get creative, we had to come up with new ways to just try to reach people. And it's been great now that we're coming, I mean, we're still in the pandemic, but we've had the opportunity to do a couple of in-person things again, and it just feels so good, it feels good to bring people together again and to talk face to face, not screen to screen. Just because it's, it's, it's tough. It's tough to not feel connected to people in the way that we used to.
Kevin Hines:
What moments or situations or experiences stick out to you from your travels and speaking engagements that you've done? Is there anything in particular you can recall that really moved to the core?
Mikhayla Hughes-Shaw:
Almost every single time that I went to a school, specifically a middle school or a high school, I would have somebody messaged me after the fact saying that I really helped them and that they are seeking help, or that my mom deals with depression or I've dealt with suicidal thoughts and just knowing that anybody felt safe enough to reach out to me, maybe that was their first step in reaching out to somebody for professional help, who knows if that was their first time actually opening up about their experiences, so there were countless times where I would talk to fifth, sixth, seventh graders and yeah, just knowing that they were dealing with some real stuff. At any age, you can deal with real stuff, but I feel like the kids in our generation now, we're just really dealing with some real stuff. So those moments will always, always stick out for me. There was one time when I did a presentation, it was in Burlington, Iowa, and I met this guy named Rich and his wife had dealt with depression, and I don't remember what the other condition was. He had told me, but he came up to me and we just had a moment. He was super emotional, and he opened up about the struggles of them finding a medication that worked well for her and how it's been so hard to see her go through different things. And he was 80, 80-85, maybe, and so just knowing that people of all ages, literally all ages deal with this in a different way, and it impacts everyone. Brain health impacts everyone.
Kevin Hines:
It does. Because everyone has a brain.
Mikhayla Hughes-Shaw:
Everyone has a brain, yes, even if we can't agree on anything in the world right now.
Kevin Hines:
We can agree on that! Everybody literally has a brain and need to take care of it, what is the hardest part about your advocacy work, if there is one?
Mikhayla Hughes-Shaw:
Oh, definitely just the fact that you have to give so much of yourself all the time, it's a blessing to be able to do that. So it's a blessing to be able to have a voice and use that voice. But it can be challenging and it can, it can drain you a little bit. Sometimes you need to take time to just recharge and know that it's alright to take a step back because we all want to be warriors for mental health advocacy, and we always want to preach this or that. But you got to also take your own advice. That's something I learned during the pandemic is that it's OK to take your own advice and to take a step back, check in with yourself.
Kevin Hines:
Self-care, right?
Mikhayla Hughes-Shaw:
Self-care!
Kevin Hines:
Mikhayla, what is the world without suicide look like to you?
Mikhayla Hughes-Shaw:
A space where people can be genuinely open and honest about them having a bad day and not feeling like they're going to be judged if they say that they're having a bad day and having people, just a more understanding society that is willing to listen to them when they say, hey, I don't want to be here anymore, I'm dealing with this and then feeling like it's OK to actually talk about that because sometimes that's all it takes, is just openly saying that you're feeling that way. And literally, you never know what one little thing could save your life or what one person or what one thing that somebody says can, can save your life.
Kevin Hines:
Well said, I like that. What could people that are listening right now do to make a difference?
Mikhayla Hughes-Shaw:
Listen and ask direct questions, too. Don't be afraid to ask somebody if they're suicidal. It's a scary question, but it's an important one, and it might be exactly what someone needs right now. And when I say, listen, listen without judgment. Don't try to just right away, say what you think that they need to hear, just, just be there and just hear what it is that they have to say. And if you don't know where to turn, just try your best to find a resource locally because it is. It's a scary time, it's a scary thing if somebody confides anew that they're thinking about taking their life. But don't take that as a joke, either. Don't take it as just somebody seeking attention. It could genuinely be their cry for help. So just be there, just be there.
Kevin Hines:
Just be there. Listen to understand not to respond, you know? The crisis text line has determined that by asking three questions which are, are you thinking of killing yourself? Have you made plans to take your life? Do you have the means? People tell more truthful answers, even than asking the question are you thinking of suicide? Because of the taboo on the word suicide. Detect that their keyword algorithm, and they've also detected that it gets a more truthful answer with those three questions than asking the question are you thinking of self-harm? Because self-harm by definition, is not suicide, it's self-harm. Define the two, if you're going to ask both those questions, but it's very important to ask those questions. It doesn't put the thought in someone's mind, gives them permission to speak on their pain, and I believe a pain shared is a pain halved. How have you carried your advocacy into your career as a TV host?
Mikhayla Hughes-Shaw:
I do my best to reach out to local mental health organizations and check in with them, see what they've got going on, if they've got an event or an initiative, something that people can get involved in, it's like, hey, go do this for brain health, this will be a good opportunity for you. And I think just actually being fearless in some of my reporting, I, when I was still a reporter, I actually had an opportunity to do a full on series. I, you know, some of the people that I'm about to say, I got to talk with Haley Degreve, from The Gray Matters, talked with her about why she formed the organization and Augustana College. I talked with Kevin and Jamie Atwood about Foster's voice and the reason behind the work that they do. It was it was awesome to reach out to some of those local advocates and to highlight their stories, and I thought that was really important to do because just like with COVID-19, you see these statistics, you see all of these numbers, you don't necessarily see people. And that can also be the same thing when it comes to statistics for how many people have taken their life. And so I think it's very important to humanize this issue and to show that these are sons, daughters, moms, husbands, wives, grandparents and that their family is in pain and that it's very important that we continue to talk about this not just as numbers, but as people.
Kevin Hines:
But as people. And that's the way to look at it because we're not just numbers, we're not just, when you have, when you go to a hospital, you get that hospital tag and it's got your name and your birth date and everyone checks it when you go through. But we're not just, just a hospital tag, we're human beings with a purpose and a path in this life, and we are truly citizens of hope, so it's a beautiful way to look at it. You've been quoted to say it's so important to be human and real open conversation brings acceptance. And one thing I actually love that you said, is to be gentle with yourself. Can you expand on these quotes for me and the audience that's listening and explain what they can look like and how people can implement them in their everyday life?
Mikhayla Hughes-Shaw:
Oh, you did your research, Kevin.
Kevin Hines:
...
Mikhayla Hughes-Shaw:
Yeah, you did, you did, well, being gentle with yourself, we are so hard on ourselves and I'm so hard on myself and I just recognize that we are so much harder on ourselves sometimes than the people that are around us and love us and even those that don't love us and keep up with us, but just criticize us. We are, I don't know why it's human nature to just immediately think negatively about ourselves and not to uplift ourselves, think about all the things that we do well, if anything, you do one thing bad in your whole mind just spirals. It's like, oh, I suck at this, I don't even know why I'm here, I'm not good enough to do X, Y and Z, and such as being gentle with yourself, and that can go for so many different things, it's OK to have a bad day, it's OK to wake up and just not be in the mood to do certain things, and it's OK if you mess up. That one mistake does not define you for the rest of your life. Even if your brain tells you that it does, that's not true. And just be gentle with yourself, be nice to yourself. You wouldn't say half the things that you say to yourself, to your best friend, to your mom, to your younger sibling. And so just treat the way that you talk to yourself and treat yourself the way that you would want somebody else to treat you.
Kevin Hines:
I love that, this is a great way to wrap things up because every single person on the face of the universe, maybe even the galaxy, has an inner critical voice.
Mikhayla Hughes-Shaw:
Mmhmm.
Kevin Hines:
All have this inner critical voice, and it truly comes from every negative, hurtful, spiteful or mean thing that's ever been said or done to us. And as children, we backed brained, internalize these things, they become our internal voices because as we learn, as we grow up as children and we learn language, whatever's been hurtful, said to us or done to us, it sticks with us and it stays right here. And then when we hurt as adults, we go back to that dark place and it damages us further, which is why I recommend taking that negative inner critical voice, looking in the mirror and saying no more. You look in the mirror, you say, I love you, you're beautiful, you're amazing, you're great, you're the best, you're phenomenal and you're a genius, you know, anything like that. Look in the mirror and tell yourself beautiful, positive things about yourself. And there's an old way of thinking called recite, repeat, belief. What is every major faith built upon? You're a woman of faith, I'm a man of faith. What is every major faith built upon? Reciting your prayer, repeating your prayer, believing a prayer. Well, that goes, it's actually scientific, because if you recite something positive, repeat something positive, you will believe something positive, you will literally retrain your brain, which is phenomenal. And the same goes to say for anything negative you say about yourself, it works the same way, you want to recite that, and repeat that, you're going to believe it. So it's time you look into, into that mirror, everybody, listening at home and say, I love you, you're beautiful, you're great, you're the best, you're phenomenal, you're a genius. Say those words towards yourself. Say them every single day until you believe it, that's, that's my big shout out for the day.
Mikhayla Hughes-Shaw:
It's your food for thought.
Kevin Hines:
Food for thought. Mikhayla, thank you very much, from the bottom of my heart for being on the show, I really appreciated it, meant the world to me, I'm very grateful, I know this is going to help a lot of people, and I hope you had a good time on the HINESIGHTS podcasts.
Mikhayla Hughes-Shaw:
I had such a good time. Thank you so much, Kevin, and keep doing what you're doing. Keep spreading hope. It's critical, you help so many people and just continue to touch lives. It's, it's important you've got to keep doing it.
Kevin Hines:
You gotta keep doing right. We've got to keep on, keep it on as they say. Thank you, Mikhayla.
Mikhayla Hughes-Shaw:
Thank you.
Kevin Hines:
Margaret and I love sharing stories of people who have triumphed over incredible adversity. For more content and inspiration, go to KevinHinesStory.com or visit us on all social media at KevinHinesStory or on youtube.com/KevinHines.
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