EP 67 | MUSLIM MENTAL HEALTH CHANGE AGENT: YASMIN IRFANI

Episode Summary

It is so important to see ourselves represented in idols and mentors; this is why this episode with Yasmin Irfani is a game-changer in the mental health field.

Her own mental health journey combined with knowing Kevin’s story inspired her to dedicate her work to suicide awareness and related topics. Within her community, Yasmin reckons that education and being open to listening are two great factors that would bring change. The more people are sharing their own mental health thoughts and experiences, the more we are normalizing it. Yasmin also reflects on those memorable moments in her life in which mental health popped up. 

This interview on the HINESIGHTS Podcast is one of the hardest things Yasmin has ever done, join her in being vocal about her journey. 

About the Guest - Yasmin Irfani

Yasmin Irfani is an Adult and Youth Mental Health First Aid instructor who resides in Los Angeles, California. She is currently serving as Youth Programs Director at the National Alliance on Mental Illness-San Fernando Valley (NAMI-SFV). She received her M.S in College Counseling and Student Services from California State University, Northridge (CSUN), and her B.A. in Psychology from UC Santa Barbara (UCSB). She has been a Youth Group Leader at the Islamic Society of West Valley for 4 years and is passionate about helping teenagers feel heard and less alone in their struggles. Yasmin loves starting conversations surrounding mental health and suicide prevention so that nobody has to suffer in silence. Though this work can feel heavy at times, she finds inspiration from the miraculous story of Kevin Hines, who she believes everyone should know about. In her free time, Yasmin likes to read, write, spend time in nature, and watch The Office with her family.

Key Take-Aways

  • When you belong to a minority group, having idols that are part of it can make a lot of difference. 

  • Some religious beliefs or communities may put a stigma around mental health. 

  • Unlearning years and years of patterns is a life-long process.

  • When we talk about our mental health journeys, we are normalizing them. 

Resources

Ep 67_Yasmin Irfani Muslim Mental Health Change Agent: Audio automatically transcribed by Sonix

Ep 67_Yasmin Irfani Muslim Mental Health Change Agent: this mp3 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.

Kevin Hines:
My name is Kevin Hines. I jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge. I believe that I had to die, but I lived. Today, I travel the world with my lovely wife, Margaret, sharing stories of people who have triumphed over incredible adversity. Now, we help people be here tomorrow. Welcome to the HINESIGHTS podcast.

Kevin Hines:
What is cracking, Hope Nation? Once again, it is your friendly neighborhood, Kevin Hines. I'm really excited about today's podcast, I'm really excited because today our guests on the HINESIGHTS podcast is the gifted and phenomenal Yasmin Irfani. Through the years of her own therapy for her mental health and emotional struggles while living as an HSP, a highly sensitive person, in case you didn't know what that meant, then support from loved ones, she's better able to be kind to herself and turn her anger and pain into purpose by trying to provide free mental education to as many people as humanly possible. Yasmin wishes there were more people from her South Asian Muslim community who would openly share their stories because to this day, she sometimes feels so alone because she does not see people who look like her who are talking about these challenges. Yasmine's passion and purpose are to be a safe person to talk to, and to create safe spaces where others can be themselves without fear of judgment or criticism from her community. She wants to help people who find hope, healing, and recovery from mental pain. Please welcome to the HINESIGHTS podcast, the one and only and the amazing, Yasmin Irfani. Yasmin, thank you for coming on the show.

Yasmin Irfani:
Thank you so much, Kevin! I'm honored and excited to be here with you.

Kevin Hines:
Well, it's a gift, and I'm very grateful. I'll tell you that much. I'm really grateful. Yasmin, let's get right into it. You work at NAMI, National Alliance on Mental Illness. What is your role at NAMI and Dignity Health?

Yasmin Irfani:
Yeah. So I work at the San Fernando Valley chapter because there is over two hundred NAMIs across the country and I'm the youth programs director there. So we received a generous grant from Dignity Health for three years to provide free trainings and mental health, first aid, and QPR suicide prevention to as many people as possible, so I coordinate and teach those trainings. And then at Dignity Health Northridge Hospital, I mainly coordinate and facilitate healthy relationships workshops for teenagers, including some social-emotional skills like how to validate your feelings, how to express yourself, and really just be empowered.

Kevin Hines:
Ok, that's phenomenal, the work you're doing. I love to hear it, love to hear someone in your community doing this work because it is rare, it's very important. On that note, what really got you passionate about doing suicide prevention, mental health work in the first place?

Yasmin Irfani:
Yeah. So it's definitely my own mental health journey and the vulnerability of high school and college students along the way that inspired me to dedicate my life to mental health awareness. So depression and anxiety is something that runs within my family, it's not very talked about, or celebrated because of the stigma and taboo, but that, it's real. So for most of my life, I felt like I was broken or too sensitive, too emotional, and it wasn't until I went to college, at UC Santa Barbara, and started engaging in the free individual therapy and group therapy that I realized that I'm not broken and I'm actually very strong for facing my emotions and being real. So I wanted to help other people, especially from my community, feel less alone and feel validated for being human, especially the young people, so that they don't have to spend years like I did feeling broken.

Kevin Hines:
Yeah.

Yasmin Irfani:
And it's actually at UCSB, where I first heard you speak 10 years ago, and I somehow stumbled upon that event and I was blown away by your story and how you're such a miracle, and I didn't even know how that would impact my career and my personal life.

Kevin Hines:
Wow. Oh, I'm very grateful. That means the world to me to hear those stories. I want to know, how, how can you describe the internal discrimination within your own South Asian community, within the Muslim community even, for mental health? What has that been like, not just with your family, but your, your friends, your colleagues? Can you explain to the audience who might not know how serious that internal community discrimination or stigma is?

Yasmin Irfani:
I can try. And speaking from my own experience and from what I've heard from my community, it's this suffocating stigma and idea of what will other people think. That is huge, and I'm sure other cultures as well, but especially in the South Asian culture where it's like, what will other people think? What will they say? We cannot share what goes on at home, outside. We need to sweep things under the rug, we need to look really great, you know?

Kevin Hines:
Yeah, totally get it. Totally understand. I want to know, on that note, since we touched upon that topic, I have to know, what do you want your South Asian and Muslim community to know about helping those with mental health conditions, how can they get involved? How can they change their viewpoints to try to help other people in mental pain?

Yasmin Irfani:
Yeah. So there's so much, right? But I think one of the pieces from your art of wellness is education, and I believe that it is my community's obligation to get educated, especially now that there's access through the internet through so many mental health resources, it's never too late to learn how to be supportive, and the most important piece is to listen. Like I want people in my community to practice listening because sometimes the tendency is to just jump in and give advice, oh, you need to pray more or you need to read the Koran or just starting to get on their own lecture of how one should live their life. And what's more powerful is to witness someone and hold them as full and complete as they are. So listening, getting educated and unlearning the conditioning that we have gone through.

Kevin Hines:
Yeah, unlearning the conditioning of the past, the past, discrimination against those mental struggles, the past quieting down of those in mental pain. Don't talk about it, who knows what people will think, unlearning that, utilizing your own education and the education you give to people to change the way we look at those mental health crises or struggles, and really listening, listening to understand, not to respond, which is really crucial. It's hard to do on a podcast, but it's really important to do it in real life, right?

Yasmin Irfani:
Yeah, and I think it's a lifelong process. I thought by getting my master's in counseling, I would be the best listener in the world, but it's, I need to hold back and breathe and hold space rather than thinking I need to jump in and fix and save and put the cherry on top.

Kevin Hines:
You know, it's really good, you said, you said fix because my wife and I have this thing, you know, Margaret, my wife and I, Margaret had this thing where we fix it or feel it. And so when she's going through a hard time or I'm going through hard time, we will each say, fix it or feel it. Do you need me to solve this problem or do you just hold space for you and listen intently to what you've got going on? And usually for her, it's a feeling. I just need to sit there, take it all in, be there with her, hold her, let her know I love her or let her know we're going to get through it, so, or whoever the person you're dealing with with fix it and feel it is, it's a way to really understand what someone needs from you. And so maybe folks in the South Asian Muslim community can start to use that terminology, fix it or feel it. And they can start the transition from not being there for severe mental pain in their community or in their family to starting to be a great listener, a great attendee to someone going through mental pain, this is a great conversation to be had.

Yasmin Irfani:
Totally. And it's OK to stumble along the way. We're not going to be perfect, but as long as I can acknowledge that, oh, I messed up right there, let me try again, then it's OK because nobody's perfect.

Kevin Hines:
Exactly. And you have to, you know, we're not going to change an entire culture overnight. This is something that this conversation that you and I are having right now is going to make a dent, but we've got to continue that conversation going forward and in the work you do every day with NAMI. Ok, who is someone that has had a really positive impact on your mental health journey?

Yasmin Irfani:
Oh, I would have to say my cousin, Mariam Tariq, who I consider my sister. She is the most empathetic human being I've ever met in my life. And since day one, she's three years younger than me. But since then, she has been my rock, someone who I have felt like I can be emotionally safe with, which is huge for me because there's been so many times that I have felt invalidated unintentionally, of course, by family, and she knows how to listen and to see me as whole and complete rather than broken, whether I am super happy and doing well, or I'm at my lowest point, she just makes me feel so unconditionally loved. So I would not be where I am without her.

Kevin Hines:
Beautifully said, And it's amazing that you have her there for you to be that rock for you, I love hear that. On that note, how does your family feel and your close relatives or friends feel, in your community, feel about the work you're doing. Is it varied? Is it different from day-to-day? What what is their viewpoint on, on the work you do?

Yasmin Irfani:
Yeah. So it's hard to say because it's so dependent on each person, but in general, I feel very grateful to receive the support that I need. Yes, there's always that fear in the back of my mind of judgment or criticism because I've received up so much throughout my life. But overall, I feel blessed. And for those who do have judgment, I just try to stay away from them and keep trying to shine a light because we desperately need it.

Kevin Hines:
Desperately needed. And you're one of the brightest shining lights in this community, so it's really great to see that. You know, what would you say, when you're moving forward in this career path and in this journey of yours to help people with their mental health, what are your personal dreams and goals personally and professionally?

Yasmin Irfani:
Yeah. So there's so much, right? I'm an idealist and I just want to do everything. But right now, professionally, I would like to one day be a director of some sort of mental health organization or a self-passion, non, self-compassion organization, because that is something which has changed my life as well. And to also be able to continue training and educating, I love to teach so something where I can do all of that and maybe lead some storytelling sessions and creating those safe spaces. And personally, I just want to feel financial stability. It's really hard in this career, working at a mental health nonprofit tos especially with the cost of living in Los Angeles, ao I really want to be stable and have my own home and one day own a dog because for my own mental health, I've always wanted a dog, but I'm just not ready yet, but those are some of my dreams.

Kevin Hines:
I love hearing that, love those dreams, those aspirations and those goals. My wife and I had a dog named Max, he was a Sharpay, he had all the wrinkles, you know, and he was the best dog in the whole wide world. I'm having such a hard time considering getting a new dog because I miss him so much. He passed away after 10 years, but he was like a little person. He was like, he was my, he became my emotional support animal as a matter of fact, and what he would do is when I was depressed, you would put his, his face, his muzzle right there, right on my knee, my left knee always. And he would just stare into my eyes. And it seemed like you wouldn't blink. And he would do this only when I was depressed. He would not do this any other time of the day, at any time of the week, of the month, only when I was depressed. And it was like he knew deep in his in his heart that I was going through a hard time and he just needed to be that, that rock for me in that moment. But I love those, those goals that you have really wish you all the best in achieving them. Who are your biggest inspirations, whether they're public figures or friends and family who are the biggest inspirations in your life today?

Yasmin Irfani:
So definitely Mariam, who I mentioned, she's a breast cancer survivor and she's been there for me. Then Brené Brown, her work on vulnerability has also made me feel less alone. And it's so cool that there's research showing that vulnerability is a strength and the path to connection. Then Kristin Neff with her work on self-compassion, which I just love, like self-soothing, putting my hand over my heart, calming myself down, talking to myself the way I would talk to a good friend, and then you, with your work with suicide prevention. I will forever be grateful to have heard your story in person and to see how you planted that seed in me to share my own story as well, which is not easy. This is one of the scariest things that I've ever done to be open and vocal about my own story and suicidal ideation.

Kevin Hines:
Well, I can't say how much I appreciate that and how much that means to me. It means the world. You know, Brené Brown, Kristin Neff, right up there with those folks, wow, thank you. And you know what? You're doing a great job in this interview so far, so I really appreciate it. I know it might be the scariest thing, you know, one of the scariest things you've done to be this open and vocal about it, but you are going to change some hearts and minds with this podcast when folks listen to it. So just remember you're doing a good deed and good work for folks around the world who are going to be listening. And we do have an international audience, which is just great here at the HINESIGHTS podcast. Let me ask you this, this is maybe, maybe a more a tougher question, what are the the challenges you're facing every day with your mental health, with your daily life, with your work? Break it down.

Yasmin Irfani:
Yeah. So there's a lot of challenges as all human beings face. And one thing I need to remind myself constantly is that my feelings and experience are valid too, because I constantly compare myself to others who have it much worse, and then I just judge myself, so. The own negative thoughts, challenging those everyday, comforting my inner child every day that we are safe, we are OK, the pressures that I feel of being twenty-nine and being single, not being married, oh, what's going to happen in your life, people caring more about my relationship status and the work that I'm doing that really hurts me. And then just being in this field and trying to also be stable financially, that is a challenge and just my own anxiety and perfectionism, which is a lifelong journey. But I get better every day and I have the tools. I have the support, so I'm grateful. But as all. I truly believe that everybody has mental health challenges each day, and it's just about normalising, talking about it more.

Kevin Hines:
Exactly. And we can find courage to talk about our mental health, we can have a way to normalize that conversation, we can always ask the questions to someone who's in pain mentally, are you thinking of killing yourself? Have you made plans to take your life? Do you have the means? Those three questions get a more truthful answer, according to the crisis text lines algorithm, then even already thinking of suicide because of the taboo on the word suicide, and then our recovery, we're all living proof, right? We can be in recovery, we can find recovery, we can live and stay in recovery, I'm not a recovered person. I live in recovery every day, it's a part of my journey. I fight to be well every day and I work hard at it, and so do you. And that's that's amazing, and for your community, it's really a beautiful thing to see you do that so you can inspire others, certainly other young ladies like yourself to go do the same thing. What helps you take care of Yasmin's mental health? What do you do for yourself?

Yasmin Irfani:
Yeah, it's such an active process, right? There's so much time and energy that I need to put in to take care of myself, but the main one is turning to my faith and God. I used to have a very, the way I was conditioned as a young Muslim was very fear-based like, oh, you better pray or you're going to go to hell or like, I felt like no matter what I would do, I wouldn't be Muslim enough. But now, for me to create my own faith and realize that no, actually, Islam is really love-based and mercy and compassion-based, so that really helps me and then not isolating. So reaching out to someone that I love or someone that I know who cares about me and letting myself be heard, it works like magic, to just be heard. And then there's so much, but one more that I will share is writing, so journaling, it also works like magic for me to just let it all out, to comfort myself, to validate myself. Because Kevin, for years and years, I would just be hungry for external validation. Please, like somebody, give me that pat on the head or the gold star, but to finally be at a place where I can mostly give that to myself, but then also reach out when I need it, like, hey, can you tell me that I am doing well because I'm feeling a lot of imposter syndrome, right now?

Kevin Hines:
It's really important that you said that, that self inner positive voice because we all have a critical voice. Every last one of us has an incredible voice and that inner critical voice, if we don't know, it comes from every spiteful, hateful, hurtful, mean or negative thing that's been said or done to us. We back bringing that stuff that stays in the back of our brain, it roots in our mind, and we can't break free from it until we start to retrain the brain with positive voices. That means that, and I said this on one of my other podcasts, but I'll say it here, because it's still so important is that when you recite negative things about yourself, when you repeat negative things about yourself, you will believe negative things about yourself. But the opposite is also true. When you recite, repeat positive things about yourself, you will believe them as well. You can literally retrain your malleable brain. And I think people don't recognize how important it is to take those negative inner critical voices and reverse them immediately. So the moment you say to yourself in the mirror, I hate you. You say, no, I love you. The more you say to yourself in the mirror, you're ugly, you say, no, I'm beautiful. Then you just retrain the brain, it's really an amazing thing because your brain is so retrainable, which people don't recognize. Your brain is the most powerful organ you weal, it's mostly on automatic mode, it controls every action, in action tou take, every decision and indecision, for lack of a better way of saying if your brain is malfunctioning, there goes the rest of you. So you have to take care of your brain and your brain wellbeing, your brain health every single day. So I love that you do that on a regular basis and you give that positive self-talk because we need to teach more young ladies like yourself to do the very same thing. What, what were some really, truly memorable moments in your mental journey, whether good, bad or however you want to describe them?

Yasmin Irfani:
Yeah. So one of the memorable moments was definitely hearing your story as a college student. Another memorable moment was when I was in grad school, in my first semester and in my first class that I was a mentor for, I just kind of casually mentioned, oh yeah, like I've lived with depression and anxiety and I went to therapy and yada, yada, yada, and then the next day, a student asked to speak with me outside, and he started saying how he wanted to kill himself. And I was so honored to, that he trusted me to share that, and we ended up walking to the counseling center. And now, after their own journey, they're doing very well. And so that's just one out of many students who, whose vulnerability and courage, inspired me to be more open and enter this career. And then the third memorable moment is when I had a mental health crisis or emotional breakdown in November of 2019. I had graduated from grad school, wasn't working, I was living at home where my dad and stepmom were not going through the best marriage, and there were just so many factors that led me to kind of just collapsing and, like emotionally and physically. So I was feeling very sick for a few days, I wasn't sleeping, which we know how important sleep is, that can change your thoughts as well. And I started having suicidal thoughts, which was really scary, that I just don't want to be here, I don't matter, and really dark thoughts. But it was through people in my life being there for me, like my cousins dropping everything, driving two hours to be with me, a religious scholar in my community, basically applying QPR in and supporting me and not seeing me as broken and all the love that I received during that time. I will never forget that because it felt like I would just always be in that darkness.

Kevin Hines:
You know, it's the old adage, did you ask for help enough times, somebody will be willing to give it to you. You know, it's the nature of probability. Maybe won't be the first, second or third person you turn to that gets you back, but someone's going to be willing to empathize with your pain. Keep asking for help, really crucial. What was it like growing up in Irvine, California, as an only child?

Yasmin Irfani:
It was a little lonely. My parents got a divorce when I was in third grade, and then I, since the people around me didn't really know how to support a highly sensitive little girl who's going through some difficulties, I started having anger issues and like bullying my little cousins and being disrespectful to my elders, and so it was a difficult time of my, of my childhood, feeling very alone and on my own, even though I was surrounded by people who loved me.

Kevin Hines:
Yeah, it was, it was a lack, it sounds like it was a lack of acceptance for your mental health crisis or your mental journey, that was really the frustrating part. They love you dearly, they were there for you, they were there to pray with you, but they didn't accept you understand your mental journey, your crisis or struggle. You talk often about being a highly sensitive person and by definition, we know what that means, but what does that mean to you?

Yasmin Irfani:
To me, it means to feel things so deeply, to feel every emotion, to be an empath, like absorbing the energy around me, feeling with other people as well. And it means being human.

Kevin Hines:
Yeah, very true. Very true. Now you're open and honest about the fact that depression anxiety it runs within your family, but it's not taught openly or aknowledged. As you said before you're, in third grade your parents got divorced, you had these anger issues, you would get a lot of trouble with your elders to be rude and disrespectful, what was that journey like when you're going through depression and anxiety, but your family is essentially sweeping it under the rug? What was that like?

Yasmin Irfani:
It was, it was, and is still really hard. I feel deeply for my little girl self, and it's so complex and messy because I know that my family was just doing the best that they can, they had their own intergenerational trauma, if they want to know better, you do better. So it was hard, but at the same time, I wouldn't be where I am in this moment without that.

Kevin Hines:
Hmm. Very true. You know, as you grew up, I understand from the conversations we've had, that you internalize everything. I was like you, I did the same thing. You would be given a message if things like, don't cry, don't be a baby, too sensitive, you're too emotional, what do you have to be sad about? You should be grateful to God, et cetera, so on and so forth. I had a similar upbringing in the Catholic faith. You know, I would cry all the time in front of my dad, and he would say, why are you crying? You know, stop crying, you know? And he would say, snap out of it, get over it, move on, you know? And I was definitely in HSP, highly sensitive person, I still am, I am an empath, I feel other people's pain, just like you. I can't walk by someone struggling in pain, that I can visually see, and not do something about it. It's really crucial for me, so I have with you right there in that similar situation, also having to do it with faith. You took these things personally. You believe that nothing you did was ever good enough. How would you .... excessively on seeking during these times, this kind of external validation that you touched upon?

Yasmin Irfani:
Yeah, it's, it's exhausting, you know, to just have so much noise in my mind, but to just have all those mistaken beliefs that many of us have like, I'm not good enough or I'm too much, or I need to earn love where I'm alone and on my own, all these false beliefs, so I'm grateful to have received the tools and to continuously learn on how to work through that because I'm not alone in that, and it's only through talking openly with others that I've been able to see that I'm not alone.

Kevin Hines:
Hmm. Yasminn, you have this wonderful quote that you shared with me, it's not about how many people you reach, but that you reach people, break that down and define that for me.

Yasmin Irfani:
Well, actually, you said that quote in an Instagram Live that we did together,

Kevin Hines:
... remember it.

Yasmin Irfani:
Yeah. So last year or two years ago when we did our Instagram Live, you shared that with me, and that's a quote that I take every day because I have these high goals. I'm like, I just need to change the world and get these trainings to as many people as possible and like, yada, yada, yada. However, when you said that, it just reminds me that it really is about reaching people rather than thinking about how many followers and likes and awards and all of that because there's that pressure, too, that many of us face.

Kevin Hines:
You're right, because we can't help everyone. We help as many people as, as we can try to help, right? I mean, you're not going to reach everybody, you're not going to, when you're online and you've got a large social media following, you're not going to get back to everybody, it's quite impossible, you can try. I've certainly had my fair amount of people get angry with me for not getting back to them. I try to do my best, but it's not always plausible. I'm only one person, you know, you're only one person. We can do what we can do, and we are trying to help people in mental pain find hope. That's the plan, that's the idea. Yasmin, it has been such an honor to have you here on the HINESIGHTS podcast, but before we go, can you tell folks where they can find you online or what websites they can go to to get some mental health help?

Yasmin Irfani:
Yes, thank you so much. You can follow at NAMI San Fernando on Instagram or find any NAMI near you, if you just Google NAMI near me and put in your zip code, there is free support for you, classes, trainings, support groups so that is an amazing resource. And then my email is Yasmin.Irfani@NAMISFV.org, I would be happy to connect with anyone or hear from anyone, and yeah, those are the main places you can connect.

Kevin Hines:
Ok, say that email one more time, loud so we can hear it.

Yasmin Irfani:
OK? Yasmin.Irfani@NAMISFC.org.

Kevin Hines:
OK. There it is, ladies and gentlemen, family and friends, this has been another episode of the HINESIGHTS podcast, Yasmin Irfani was our guest an amazing guest at that, what a day it was, thank you, Yasmin. I hope you have a wonderful rest of your day and a wonderful journey into good, positive and hopeful mental health and wellbeing. We wish you the best and we'll talk to you soon. Bye, guys. Take care. Be well and be here tomorrow.

Kevin Hines:
Margaret and I love sharing stories of people who have triumphed over incredible adversity. For more content and inspiration, go to KevinHinesStory.com or visit us on all social media at KevinHinesStory or on youtube.com/KevinHines.

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Margaret Hines